Navigating the Minefield of Avoidant Love and Narcissistic Lures

Have you ever found yourself puzzled by the dance of connection and withdrawal in your relationships? Coach Ryan Hawley joins us to unravel the often misunderstood concepts of avoidant attachment and narcissism, shedding light on the nuances that dictate the push-pull dynamics of love and intimacy. Through Ryan's expertise, we dissect the three primary attachment styles - secure, anxious, and avoidant - and delve into how they shape our interactions with partners, particularly the challenges posed by the avoidant's deep-seated fear of true closeness and the mistaken belief in inevitable abandonment.

Navigating the complexities of modern dating can be like trying to solve a puzzle with missing pieces. That's where our conversation with Ryan becomes the missing link, providing actionable insights into recognizing the alarms of an avoidant partner. With a focus on the subtle yet disruptive patterns of behavior that avoidants exhibit, including their need for space and penchant for long-distance relationships, we equip you with the understanding to not take their retreats personally. Whether you're in the throes of dating or deep within a committed relationship, recognizing these red flags is crucial for fostering healthy dynamics and avoiding the heartache that comes from mismatched attachment needs.

Concluding our deep dive, we address the beacon of hope: secure attachment. Through practical advice and a recommended self-assessment tool - the attachment style quiz from Amir Levine's book "Attached" - we empower you to journey towards a more secure you. We juxtapose the challenges and potential growth paths for anxious and avoidant individuals, emphasizing the importance of self-reflection and clear communication in evolving towards healthier partnerships. So, if you're keen on understanding the tango of attachment styles or striving to build stronger bonds, Ryan's guidance in this episode is the compass you need to navigate through the ever-shifting terrain of human connections.


Coach Ryan:
https://www.coachryanllc.com/coachingaccelerator
Tiktok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@coach.ryan0?_t=8jFnXwRv0W3&_r=1
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/coach_ryan_h?igsh=MTM3dHVlbmVrOWh4cg%3D%3D&utm_source=qr

Book:
Attached
Amir Levine
https://amzn.to/3vSrdgx
Finding your attachment
https://www.attachedthebook.com/wordpress/compa

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:18

Hi and welcome to Real Estate and the Adventures of Parenthood, and today we have Coach Ryan.

Speaker 2: 0:25

Hey, how are you doing? I'm Ryan Hawley, also known as Coach Ryan. I am a life and relationship coach, and I specialize primarily in attachment theory. I also work with cases of narcissism, too, so that's a little bit about me.

Speaker 1: 0:43

So cases of narcissism. That's really interesting. I bet you're pretty popular in the industry, right.

Speaker 2: 0:48

Yes, I've gained a pretty big following and quite a busy schedule as well. Narcissism is a very popular buzzword right now, but in reality we're actually living in the age of narcissism. There's more cases of it and psychologists agree than ever before in history, and a lot of things contribute to that social media, our current culture but that also contributes to insecure attachment too, so that's more prevalent than ever before as well, and the primary insecure attachment style out there is avoidant attachment, where people run from problems rather than face them.

Speaker 1: 1:25

So is there a difference between I know that so is narcissism involving attachments or is there a specific attachment style that is related to narcissism?

Speaker 2: 1:39

All narcissists are actually avoidants. They're all avoidantly attached. But the majority of avoidants are not narcissists. See, avoidant attachment is an attachment style, just like anxious attachment is an attachment style, so it's secure. An attachment style is a learned behavior that you've learned in your life, usually from childhood, and is how you cope with emotional and relationship stress and is how you deal with relationships in general. But that can be unlearned, because it's a learned behavior. Narcissism is a personality disorder. It can't be unlearned, it can only be managed and regulated. But they cannot unlearn their personality disorder. So there is a difference.

Speaker 1: 2:18

So that means. So there's. It seems like there's different types of attachment styles, right.

Speaker 2: 2:25

So three primary types anxious, avoidant and secure.

Speaker 1: 2:31

And then isn't there a fourth one too.

Speaker 2: 2:33

Well, there's fearful avoidant. There's different categories of avoidance and people can think that means that there's a fourth style. But there's really avoidant attachment and it has two subcategories dismissive avoidant and fearful avoidant. But there's really three main styles.

Speaker 1: 2:46

And how can you actually find out if the person is an avoidant attached style has that type of attachment.

Speaker 2: 2:54

There's behavioral patterns that'll come into play. So people that are, for example, secure, that is the healthy way, that is the quote unquote normal way to deal with relationship issues. You have your own decent self-worth, your own high self-esteem and you come to a relationship from a healthy place. Now, people that are anxious and avoidant both have a large fear of abandonment. That's where it all comes from. Typically, they had a childhood where one or more caretakers or parents were not emotionally available for them. They have witnessed divorce, dysfunction, toxicity and, depending on the child's temperament, will depend on which direction they go. An anxious person fears abandonment, but they try to control the outcome by wrapping their hands around it and getting very, almost smothering of the situation. They feel like if they just exert more control they can prevent the person from leaving them. An avoidant looks at it from a glass half empty point of view. Why bother trying? It's doomed to begin with. And they just run away from the problem and distance themselves rather than face it.

Speaker 1: 4:00

So now, with this whole dating era and relationship era of ghosting disappearing, coming back like oh wow, I mean, it goes from the past. Is that an avoidant style, attachment style like, is that the most popular one that people have?

Speaker 2: 4:19

It is. So you have about 50% of the population is actually securely attached. So technically there's still the majority is secure. Out of the 50% that are insecurely attached, there's two insecure attachment styles. There is anxious and avoidant. Approximately 90% of the insecurely attached people are avoidantly attached. About 10% are anxious.

Speaker 2: 4:40

So the people at ghost, the people that disappear and come back, those are almost always avoidants. They fear emotional intimacy and they especially fear it with a healthy partner. The healthier their partner is and the more emotionally available their partner is, the more they run from it. Because the avoidant has a low self-esteem and they view that they're not good enough for the healthy partner and it's inevitable that the healthy partner is going to figure out that they're too good for the avoidant. So rejection and abandonment is just going to happen in the mind of the avoidant and they fear rejection and abandonment above all else. So they distance themselves, they pull back, they prevent themselves from getting truly emotionally close and attached to the person. Ryan, yep, ryan, yeah, all right, there you go. Yeah, there you go, there you go, there you go. I hear you.

Speaker 1: 5:27

I hear you. Okay, now.

Speaker 2: 5:29

Okay, I never lost you. Sorry, did you lose me? Okay?

Speaker 1: 5:33

No, I didn't. So you said that the avoidant attachment style usually have, and that's why I lost you.

Speaker 2: 5:42

Okay, the avoidant attachment style. They have a glass half empty approach to the relationship. They feel like it's inevitable that they're going to get abandoned by a healthy partner because they don't feel like they're good enough. And it's just a matter of time before the healthy partner figures out that they're too good for the avoidant. So they pull away. It's a way of protecting themselves. They don't allow themselves to get emotionally close to anybody, especially a healthy partner. They are what you call emotionally unavailable people and they have a brick wall inside that they just don't let anybody in. And it's because of their past wounds and traumas Until they heal, that they're not going to be able to get close to anybody.

Speaker 2: 6:17

But here's the caveat this can commit to relationships, but they generally commit to toxic partners. And that's because they feel safe in toxic relationships and they feel very unsafe in healthy relationships. They never witness a healthy relationship. So when they get one, it feels foreign to them, it feels like they're trying to be manipulated. Why is this person being so nice? To me? This doesn't make sense. So also there's an unspoken rule that a healthy partner well, you have to be emotionally available for that person, because the healthy partner is emotionally available for them and that pressure makes the avoidant feel scared. So a toxic partner is usually somebody who's emotionally unavailable themselves. So the avoidant doesn't feel pressure to be emotionally available for the toxic partner. So they feel safer in that relationship because they can remain emotionally unavailable for the person that's also emotionally unavailable. So they do gravitate towards toxic relationships and they usually commit and stay in those. But when it comes to a healthy relationship they run for the hills. They're scared to death of a healthy partner.

Speaker 1: 7:18

So the whole thing. Do you think that most likely there's more avoidance on dating apps than anything nowadays, or is it?

Speaker 2: 7:26

just it's black part of the most prevalent. Most of the most prevalent.

Speaker 1: 7:31

So that means when people stop ghost, they start answering your text messages or disappear for days or say, hey, we can't do this. Those are most likely like little red flags or big giant red flags.

Speaker 2: 7:47

Those are big red flags for an avoidant, and one of the biggest red flags is when they advertise that they're fiercely independent, so they might even put it on their dating profile Strong independent guy or strong independent woman. It sounds like a good thing, but it's the massive red flag. See, a healthy, secure adult should be an independent person. You should be an independent, autonomous person that's able to rely on yourself. So it sounds like a good thing. The difference is a secure, healthy person doesn't feel the need to assert it, because it should be a given that as an adult, you are an independent, functioning person.

Speaker 2: 8:20

It's the insecure avoidant that feels the need to assert it because of their fears, their insecurities, their fear of abandonment, their fear of engulfment, their fear of losing their independence to somebody that's ultimately going to abandon them. So they make sure to assert early on how independent they are. I liken it to being a parent. If you're a parent, it's equivalent of saying I feed my children. Well, yeah, you should feed your children, but just like you should be a secure, healthy, independent person. So if you're asserting it, that's usually a red flag. There's something that you're insecure about and that's something that avoidants almost always telegraph early on in dating, if not even on their dating profile Interesting.

Speaker 1: 9:02

And then, if you get into a relationship or as you start dating an avoidant, is there a way of changing them or not changing them because you never want to change someone help them heal or, through their insecurities, like hey, I'm too busy, no, you're not too busy, you can always make time for the things that you want. Would that be like an avoidant style then?

Speaker 2: 9:24

It would be so. You can't change them Ultimately. They have to want to change themselves and heal themselves. You can create an environment where it's easier for them to choose. Change Means being consistent not pressuring them, giving them space when they need, reassuring them when they need reassurances.

Speaker 2: 9:42

But depending on the severity of avoidance, if they are severely avoidant, that may not even be enough. They still could run for the hills and eventually ghost you. The milder ones will work with you on that and you can help lead them to a healthier place. The severe ones have a lot of work to do and it almost doesn't matter what you do. They will run because they're just so insecure and they are so unhealed that there's almost really nothing that you can do to make it easier for them to pick to be secure. They have to want it themselves. But it's a spectrum. Not everybody that's avoidant is somebody that's terrible for relationship. Some of them just may have some quirks and things that you need to work through to get better communication, and then some of them are just so avoidant that there's really no way on earth to have a real relationship with this person. They just won't allow it.

Speaker 1: 10:30

Basically, just cut your losses and run.

Speaker 2: 10:32

Absolutely. If they disappear for days on end, that's a sign that you're dealing with somebody that's severely avoidant. A mild avoidant wouldn't do that.

Speaker 1: 10:43

What other things that you would recommend for people that are dating like, hey, you know what. These are the things that you should focus on or these are the things you shouldn't focus on when you're looking Like things that you can see on an avoidant or a narcissist, and what are the things that you should avoid.

Speaker 2: 11:02

Well, the number one thing is that both avoidants and narcissists love bomb early on in the relationship. They both do. If it seems too much, too soon, too fast, chances are it probably is. With a narcissist love bombings phony. They're projecting to you what they think you want to see. They don't mean a word of it, it's all fake. It's like an actor playing a role. With the avoidant they mean the love bombing because they're in the fantasy stages early on. There's infatuation, there's dopamine going on, but then when the relationship progresses and becomes real, they get scared and run from it. But both of them do love bomb.

Speaker 2: 11:38

It's a more subtle love bombing with an avoidant. It's a very overt love bombing with a narcissist and the narcissist will usually future fake you. I mean three days in they're already talking about the names of your kids and the kind of house you're going to buy, and that's a typical thing of a narcissist to do. They make it seem like you are this perfect person. If it's too much, if it feels like too much too soon, it probably is. So yeah, if it's really super intense early on, keep your, keep your antenna up. Is it possible that it's a healthy person? That's just that much into you.

Speaker 2: 12:10

It is, but look for other signs as well. Look for signs, especially if they are fiercely independent or if they talk about having a guard up a wall that takes some time to come down. That wall usually doesn't come down. It's usually a sign that they're an avoidant. What the narcissist look to see. If they are excessively talking about themselves, if they circle every conversation back to themselves, like you bring up any topic and somehow they always turn it into something about them, that is a sign you're dealing with somebody who's a narcissist.

Speaker 2: 12:41

In addition to the love bombing Sometimes it can be tricky there is such thing as a covert narcissist. They come across humble in the beginning and they can be very difficult to detect and they often play the victim role and they look for sympathy. They've had a hard life, a very difficult breakup. They're in pain and they want the sympathy from you. But one thing they still do is they love bomb and they also always turn the conversation back to them because at the end of the day, with a narcissist, that's what it's about. It's about them and what they get out of relationship. It's never anything to do with you.

Speaker 1: 13:12

Interesting. Now for the avoidant and all that Like if they, like I know it would be like what type of traumas would they had have gone through their life for an avoidant attachment style?

Speaker 2: 13:27

So there's various different traumas that can happen and can be different degrees of avoidance, but typically a divorce of parents can do it, especially at an early age. It can be parents that are just emotionally unavailable, that don't support them, that don't comfort them when they need it. When they're a young child, other emotions could have been suppressed, like if they're a young kid showing emotion, they're told to just shut up and suck it up so they learn to suppress their own feelings. It can be other traumas too. It can be severe traumas. I mean it could be anything from physical to sexual abuse that can cause severe avoidance. So it can range from something small, as a parent that's just not emotionally present, to something large like a major sort of abuse.

Speaker 1: 14:11

So that would be how would someone be able to find out or tell themselves like, hey, you know what? What type of attachment style am I? Am I an avoidant? Because I know I've heard a lot of the word narcissist lately and yes, I know that's like the typical word or well, what a narcissist? Or he's a narcissist, and so forth. It's all about them. Now, if they wanted to find out what type of attachment style and how can they work on themselves, what are the ways that they can actually do that, to find out what attachment style they are?

Speaker 2: 14:43

Well, there's actually a good amount of quizzes out there. If you simply do a Google search on attachment style, you'll come up with dozens of them and the book Attach, which is kind of like the premier book on attachment right now by Amir Levine. That book also comes with a essentially a quiz attest so you can actually test your own attachment style. And often what I find is that people that think they're anxious are actually more secure than they usually think and it's because they went through a relationship or a discard with somebody who is either narcissistic or avoidant that made them feel anxiety and trick them into thinking that they're actually anxiously attached. Anxiously attached people are by far the minority. Most people are either secure or avoidant. But the test will give you a pretty good clue.

Speaker 2: 15:29

But here's the other thing to understand as well is that avoidant people they don't like to self reflect. That's something they typically avoid. Self reflection means owning your feelings, owning your fears, owning your shortcomings. They don't like that. That's painful, so they avoid it. So most avoidants are actually unaware of what attachment even is, because they don't have the interest in going there. They don't have the interest in recognizing their own behaviors because they don't like self reflection.

Speaker 1: 15:54

Interesting that. I mean there's a lot like so. So, coach Ryan, you can find him as coach Ryan on TikTok and he's going to be talking. You see his videos are talking about like the type of attachment styles, avoidant attachment and that's how I actually found him on TikTok actually looking about. He goes really, really in depth about, like, what is an avoidant? And I think one of your I cannot remember right now what was your latest video about the avoidant attachment.

Speaker 1: 16:23

It's like, hey, you know what you have all of a sudden saying this guy is, or this person because it's not only men but it's also women Like hey, you know what, I can't do this too much. And they actually are very, very insecure. But same time that they're insecure, they feel like they are not worth it. You know that you can, you deserve something better. And that's what caught my attention, because when you're actually in a dating world nowadays, it's hard to date, it's difficult, but it's seeing these signs. It's like, okay, so this person, they ghosted me, they disappeared. It's an overwhelming situation. So you see all these little keywords and that's where I'm like, oh wait, this isn't avoid an attachment. So how can you actually avoid that or say okay, it's not me, it's them. Because sometimes you think about like okay, I'm a great person, what am I doing? How can I improve in myself? And then you see like, wow, let's just dig deeper, what the reality of things are.

Speaker 2: 17:36

Yeah, no, that's all good questions there. So first of all, if you do find yourself in a relationship with an avoidant that's constantly pulling away from you, recognize it is not your fault. No matter how perfect you are, you will never be perfect enough to make this person feel secure, because you can only control your own behavior. You can't control the behavior or feelings of anybody else. You can create an environment where it's easier for someone to choose happiness, or easier to feel safe, or easier to feel secure or make secure choices, but at the end of the day, you can't force them to do anything or feel anything. So it's not your fault If they're pulling away and you've given all your effort. Don't blame yourself. You are not responsible for this person's unhealed traumas and unhealed attachment loans. It's not your fault. You can't fix them. They have to fit one to fix themselves. So recognizing it's not your fault is a big part of healing and moving on and being kind to yourself. But the other thing is, too, is to really look out for those red flags. You know when you're out dating. Are they advertising about fierce independence? Are they talking about how they have an emotional wall up in a guard and it takes some time to bring it down. How do they communicate with you? Do they respond at a relatively reasonable amount of time? Or you text them at eight in the morning and they're not replying till 11 the next day. So it's never. You know it's.

Speaker 2: 18:54

Everybody gets busy. We all get into meetings. We have things where we can't get to our phone, just like right now. I'm not going to answer text messages while I'm in the middle of a podcast. I'm not legitimate reasons. But at the same time, you know, if someone I'm in a relationship with with with where to text me right now, it will be unreasonable for me to wait till the next day to reply to them. Everybody has the chance to reply that day. If they can't do that to you, what they're doing is they're telling you, they're telegraphing their avoidance to you, because that's not normal. It only takes 20 seconds to send out a text message.

Speaker 2: 19:25

Yes, there are inappropriate times to bring out your phone, but in a healthy relationship you get back to the person in a reasonable amount of time. It doesn't mean it has to be that instant, because we do get busy, but that is a big sign if they can't communicate consistently with you. If it's hot and cold. That's a big sign that that push pull dynamic meaning they want it, they pull away. They want it, they pull away is playing out real time and that dynamic also goes on in their own mind. They want the relationship, they're afraid of it, so they go back and forth. That's how you get this hot, cold behavior. So communication is a big part of it. See, if they can consistently communicate with you. If they can't and they're also talking about independence they're also talking about how they have this guard up. Rest assured, you're dealing with somebody who is avoidantly attached and it's a calculated choice. If you want to continue to pursue this person, just don't be surprised when they ghost you or dump you out of nowhere, because that's usually how it ends.

Speaker 1: 20:19

Roughly breakups, like what the heck happened, what I mean? Okay, bye, but that's the thing. It's just like I never thought about, like the whole dynamic of hey, you know, at some times I take four hours to answer back. But right now I have 25 messages and I'm like, okay, I need to go through all these messages. And then I'm like, okay, I got things to do, I'll just text later. But it depends on the day of the person and how it's going. But usually a secure attached will say, hey, I'll get back to you later, or this is my schedule, look at my calendar.

Speaker 2: 20:53

Exactly If they don't have anything to hide.

Speaker 2: 20:57

It's a bit different with somebody in a relationship with right. If you're busy and you're swamped and you have 25 messages, well, you're not in a relationship with 25 people. The person that you're in a personal relationship with should always be the priority to get back to, and if you're swamped, it doesn't take much to say hey, I'm really swamped, I'll text you later. It's a common courtesy. That's what a healthy, secure person would do. And avoidant they're not ghosting you or not replying to you because they don't have time. It's an intentional choice. It's a defense mechanism. It's a way to keep you at an emotional arm's length. That's why they do it, because it makes them feel safer. That way they don't have to get too close to you. And, by the way, they love long distance relationships. Avoidants love them because it's a way for them to feel safe, because they can keep you at that distance and they don't have to see you very much.

Speaker 1: 21:47

But also an avoidant attachment is a serial data. It's not like oh, you know what, I'm just going to keep my options. Do you want to be my third friend for the benefits I mean? But we can't see each other every single week, we have to see each other every two months.

Speaker 2: 22:04

That is another way to ensure. Now, keep in mind, yes, it's very common for them to be serial daters. They're monkey branch, you know, like a monkey swinging from the trees, not letting go of the previous branch until they have a new branch in hand, always going from one relationship to the next because it gives them validation, because they have a low self-esteem, so that dopamine hit that they get in every new relationship makes them feel better about themselves in the moment. But it is important to note that not all avoidants do this. There are avoidants that do not serial date. So not every single one of them does that because, again, not every single person is exactly the same. Even if they're all, even people within the avoidant attachment, everybody still has their own things. So not all of them serial date. Some of them actually don't date very often at all, but the majority of them do serial date no-transcript.

Speaker 1: 22:52

It's a really, really interesting concept because I was like whenever I heard like like the text messages, the getting back to them, because I've heard of things like hey, you know what, if they don't, they don't have to text you every day. And you know, some people do text every day and some people don't text every day and some people are like you know what? I'd rather do a in-person conversation or in-person relationship versus being on the phone all the time. But then again I mean you see people like oh, here we start again the good morning beautiful, like really, or good morning handsome. Then you start seeing like these little patterns over and over again and then all of a sudden it dies, but then that's a lob bombing. That's like okay, too fast, too soon, too fast or too fast, too soon.

Speaker 2: 23:38

Too fast, too soon is definitely something to pay attention to, and if it's in an extreme intensity, it's probably somebody narcissistic. A boy don't love bombing as much more so Interesting Narcissists are over the top the what Narcissists are over the top with it.

Speaker 1: 23:57

Ooh, that's not good at all. No, has there. Like I know, there's different aspects with secure, securely attached and all. But are there a particular quiz that you actually recommend for them to take?

Speaker 2: 24:11

Yes, the best one is actually with the book attached. That is by far the best Because, I mean, amir Levine is one of the leading specialists in attachment theory and he crafted that quiz and I think what most people that are interested enough to read it are actually going to find that they're probably securely attached or maybe mildly anxious. The severe anxious attachments are actually kind of rare. There's not that many. There are some. They can be very difficult to be in a relationship with too, because they're smothering. They're the ones that need constant reassurance every five minutes Do you love me? Yes, five minutes later, you sure you love me? Yes, 10 minutes later, you sure. You sure you love me? Yes, and it can get a bit overwhelming.

Speaker 2: 24:53

But the thing is, is that people that are anxious and people that are secure are generally emotionally available, means they're willing and open to do the emotional connection. Because the people on the avoidance spectrum the further deeper they go into avoidance, the less emotionally available they are. Mildly avoidant people can be emotionally available. They can, they can get there. Severe ones just simply cannot. There's a brick wall there and they're never going to allow that deep level of emotional attachment. Even if the relationship goes on for years. They still have that distance between you and them that they just will never let you close that distance.

Speaker 1: 25:27

Do you think that someone that is like they need that constant reassurance. Do you think that would go away after building trust in the relationship?

Speaker 2: 25:35

It can. Yes, it can. So people that are severely anxious they generally do tend to become less anxious as the relationship progresses and there is a security to the relationship. So, yes, they generally do reign themselves in from that severe anxiety. Now, however, if they're in a relationship, with an avoidant person, the anxiousness gets worse, because it's actually a normal human response to feel anxiety when someone that you love and care about is pulling away from you and pushing you away.

Speaker 1: 26:07

I know we're almost up with time, but, ryan, where can they find you and what type of services do you offer? I know you're a life coach, but what other coaching do you do to work with these insecurities, attachments and all that?

Speaker 2: 26:23

Well, I do Zoom one-on-one calls with clients, so they schedule and book sessions with me and as one-on-one we do 50-minute sessions. We go over each person's individual situation in detail and provide some clarity, insight, a guide for a path forward, depending on what their goal is. And ultimately, it's not my job to tell somebody whether they should or should not be in a relationship with them, but I can definitely work on trying to make that the healthiest choice for them or the healthiest outcome that I can, regardless of what they choose how to make it a healthier relationship or how to heal and find a healthier relationship elsewhere. So focusing on the healthy aspect is really what I do and to try to make it the healthiest possible way for the person to get there. So Zoom one-on-one calls. I'm actually working on a course right now that'll be up and running probably in a couple weeks regarding how to do healthy relationships and building a healthier future.

Speaker 2: 27:26

And, of course, there's my videos on both Instagram and TikTok. If you look at me up, coach Ryan and I also have my website, coachryanlccom backslash coaching accelerator. That is my website. But, yeah, lots of content. I produce videos every single day going over attachment styles, narcissism, sometimes borderline personality disorder Pretty much the common things that people are going to encounter in the dating and relationship world. So there's tons of hours of free content out there, slowly starting to work towards expanding towards YouTube and Facebook. I can only bite off so much at once, but it's been exploding on TikTok and Instagram for me, so I'm very grateful and thankful for that. It's been a fun ride so far and only scratched the surface of what we want to do, because there's so much need for this out there in the relationship sphere. There's a lot of this stuff going on in today's world and there's a need for more people really explaining what this is and helping provide clarity to others that are going through it.

Speaker 1: 28:29

I completely agree. It's just like if I'm talking to someone, I'm like okay, what's your attachment style, what's your personality style, what's your love language? Because, in order to have a healthy relationship, you need to build a solid foundation to gather more understanding of that person inside, completely, and it's not only the outside which is a pretty side. You also need to find out what the inside means and what they really are. Because let's say, for instance, if I'm within an anxious attached, anxious, preoccupied, or anxious, let's say anxious, preoccupied, right.

Speaker 2: 29:04

Same, thing, yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:06

He's going to be like, oh, do you love me? Do you love me? I want to see you. I want to see you. I'm like, oh, what's going on here? And I'm like, look, I need to do stuff, and that's going to bring you both apart. But if you guys know that coming into the relationship, you'd be like, okay, so then how can we actually communicate, how can actually reassure you and how can we work? We can both work on are insecurities, because we all have insecurities. No matter how confident you are, then you always have to have that trust and that communication. If there's no communication, then you cannot build a solid foundation, and that's where relationships fail.

Speaker 2: 29:44

Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. Communication is important. If someone's willing to own and discover their attachment style, that's huge. Because when you know your partner's attachment style or what their natural attachment style is, you both can work together to become more secure and improve communication, Also work towards becoming healthier together. It can build an understanding which can lead to trust and security. Now there is an advantage to somebody who's anxious as opposed to somebody who's avoidant. That's that a self-reflection comes more naturally to the anxious person. They tend to sometimes over self-reflect, but they self-reflect, whereas avoidance avoids self-reflection. It's easier to grow as a person if you self-reflect than it is for somebody who doesn't. It's much easier to be anxious and become secure than it is for somebody who's avoidant to become secure, but both are possible.

Speaker 1: 30:44

That is really good. I think the anxious can also be an overthinker too.

Speaker 2: 30:48

The usual.

Speaker 1: 30:50

That would be a different discussion. That would be a different podcast for overthinkers like, okay, now what?

Speaker 2: 30:55

Overthink themselves to death sometimes.

Speaker 1: 30:58

Yes, and they also create scenarios in their mind. Sometimes the scenario that you're creating, the story that you're creating in your head, is not the reality. You need to talk about those overthinking conversations. What if he's thinking about that? What if there's other options? Or what if he doesn't want to marry me? Or what if there's so many other things? We can go down the whole. It's just like asking someone what do you want to eat? I don't know what I want to eat, but then again you really want steak, but the other person want tacos. And it's just like why didn't you just talk it out? At least be blunt and honest.

Speaker 2: 31:36

No, absolutely it's. They can overthink themselves to death and overcomplicate things and create problems where there are none. So that is something that overthinking and anxiousness can definitely do, but at the end of the day you have more to work with. With somebody who's anxious, you can you can really have a better shot at making that relationship work than you do with somebody who's avoid. It's a lot harder with an avoid, but it's fine.

Speaker 1: 31:59

So you're saying dating someone secure and anxious Perfect, that's great.

Speaker 2: 32:04

Much better. I mean, the perfect one is the secure. But yeah, you can deal with an anxious person and really make it work. It's a lot harder with an. Avoid it Possible, yes, easy, no.

Speaker 1: 32:17

Definitely agree. All right, so our time is up and coach Ryan, thank you for joining. And guys, all his information is going to be in the link section and the notes. So until next time.

Speaker 2: 32:33

Thanks again, appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 32:36

Bye.