Episode 54 - "Special Edition" Coaches Don't Play with Dave Glaser

Check out the interview with Dave Glaser- talking about modern dating & boundaries as well as attachment styles, love languages, and enneagram.
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Check out Dave:
https://www.daveglaser.com

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Transcript

Cindy: 0:17

Hello and welcome to Dear daddy's boyfriend bitches dating and everything in between and today we have Dave Glaser. Dave is gonna say his last name because I did not I was not able to pronounce it. But we also have Nicole with me. And, Dave, can you tell us a little bit about you?

Dave: 0:47

Sure. Dave Glaser is how you say my name. Thanks for having me. You too. This has given me a lot of fun, I think based on that intro. A little bit about me. I'm a personal trainer in Denver, Colorado, and I do relationship coaching as well. I'm a single dad, I have a 20 year old daughter, and Cindy and I met on Tik Tok. That's originally how we got connected and TikToks a fun place for me to share content about attachment theory, modern dating, dating apps, text messaging, and overall just relationship theory when it comes to how to show up in modern dating with text messages, social media and dating apps as a way that people connect and communicate these days.

Cindy: 1:35

Definitely, I mean, the dating world is just like, it's a nightmare. I would say that it's just like

Dave: 1:47

in what way??

Cindy: 1:48

in every way?

Nicole: 1:49

Yeah. I mean, I think in every way, I think. I don't know, Dave, I'm curious to know your opinion about dating apps.

Dave: 1:58

Dating apps, I feel, there's a desensitization to modern dating when it because of dating apps, it it gives us access to a lot of people right away. Which gives us kind of a conundrum. It's called The Paradox of Choice. When we have too many choices on a dating app, it's very difficult to make any single choice at all. You know, when you go to the Cheesecake Factory, and they have 400 menu items, it takes everybody 20 minutes to order. Whereas if you go to a specialty fine dining restaurant that only has six menu items, people know exactly what they want right away. So there's a lot of people out there that do multiple people at the same time. There's others that like to choose to date one person at a time. Well, online dating kind of muddles the two worlds. So accurate.

Cindy: 2:50

So my question is, I mean, because honestly, I've been invading ads for the past two weeks, and I'm getting burned out. And I'm just like, do I have to reply to all these people like, man, and then I just sick days? And it's just like, you know, it's just like, there's three people that I round it down to three people. And it's just like, okay, whoever steps up, then I'm actually going to go with that person. Because I don't want to chase. But I'm also interested, but you know, so I'm gonna tell you funny story is that I had met this guy, I matched with him on hinge, some on Bumble, and hinge. Those are the only two dating apps I am. And I'm now networking all over the place. So to meet people, organically. And we had match last year, same. And it's like, he's like, do you want to go ahead and text? I'm like, here's my number. Let's just text because I mean, this is ridiculous. And he's like, we've texted before. And this was last year. And I don't know what happened. He had a meeting. And you know, I never text I never followed up. He never followed up. And now we the same thing happened this year. We actually texted each other. And he's like, We texted before. And now let's go out but we haven't been able to because he travels a lot. So we're going to be FaceTiming soon.

Dave: 4:15

Oh, good

Cindy: 4:16

tonight.

Dave: 4:16

Yeah,

Cindy: 4:16

after this.

Nicole: 4:18

I know like when I was dating, like, I would always want to FaceTime first or get on a phone call first, just to see if there's actually a connection. I mean, obviously, we don't know until we're in person with that person. But I always think that that's like, my golden rule, FaceTime or tech, or I'm sorry, or phone call first.

Dave: 4:38

Yeah, really, really smart way to stay safe when it comes to dating. I think that that's a good approach to saving time as well. You know, if if there's no connection over FaceTime, there won't be a connection in person. And you you want to know that so that you don't spend two hours over cocktails or appetizers or dinner. And just within the first five minutes, you know that it's not going to be a match. And when Cindy what you were sharing your story earlier, you're talking about, do I have to respond to everybody? And you know the correct answer is no you we did it you whittled it down to about three people. My question to you is do you have to match with all of those people?

Cindy: 5:19

No, you don't know that

Dave: 5:21

makes you? Yeah, what makes you match? With that many people? Are you just looking at how many people swiped on you? And I don't know whittling? No.

Cindy: 5:32

So I look at their profile, I look to see if we're compatible. Now I'm looking at location. Because remember, last year I was looking at, like distance, it didn't matter. No, like, you know what, if you're outside Georgia, then forget about it. I mean, I'll consider Florida. But I'm like, you know, I want somebody that is local. And then I can I can actually like grab coffee or movies, while watch movies, you know, something that someone is going to be here local, because I'm sick and tired of traveling well, for someone else,

Dave: 6:05

right? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. The one advantage I think that dating apps do have for us is that mileage parameter setting? How far do you want your radius to be? And if you want it to be 30 miles, you get to pick it at 30 miles. The drawback is that the research shows you have about point seven seconds to make a good first impression on a dating app. And it's either a swipe right or swipe left in under a second. That's incredible. Yeah. So my question is, my question is, do you think people are actually looking at the profile in order to make the swipe right swipe left decision?

Cindy: 6:44

They're looking at that picture. And you're right. And you're right, because when I see like, Oh, now forget about it. Because if you look at my profile, I have one that is really nicely dressed up. And I have one of me flying a plane on a hit hot air balloon. Flying? Oh, rip, ziplining. Yeah, jumping out of a plane to so and that seems like attracts a lot of men with that.

Dave: 7:13

Yeah, I think that I think one strategy that people have come up with when it comes to online dating is, I'm going to decide and under a second, and that's okay with me. And then after we match, then I'll take a deeper look into their profile. And for me that that brings a really inauthentic approach to dating apps. One that's going to lead to too many choices, too much noise. And it's going to lead to more conversations that either don't get started or just fizzle out. What are your thoughts?

Nicole: 7:45

And you're right about the accurate I do think, I think with women, I know, for me, and some of the girlfriends that I have, we do take the time to read the profiles. And a lot of them are just walking red flags as it is, you know, I feel like if you have to spell out, I'm an alpha male, you're really not an alpha male, you know? Right. So, right. I mean, for me, when I was dating, I feel like reading that would give give me a lot of insight on how they were especially, you know, if we saw, like, different music tastes like are they, you know, able to compromise and, you know, I don't know, stuff like that, you know, what are they into? Are they a homebody? Are they adventurous? You know, which one, but I feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like with men, men are more, I guess. And obviously, this is not every man. But I feel like men are probably a little bit more visual, I guess, maybe not necessarily, like read the profiles. Do you think that that's pretty accurate?

Dave: 8:45

Yeah, I definitely think that our biology is for what we see. And the feminine biology or the feminine tendency is to choose based on what they read. So if men are having a hard time, getting matches, I always recommend that they expand on their bio, he put very specific things in their bio, so that when women are selecting which profiles to swipe left and right on, they select based on the written word. And I found that my own profile, my my initial first impression picture is me and my daughter's puppy who's like an eight week old Chocolate Lab at the time. So like, you want to talk about thirst traps, that's my thirst trap picture. And then I decided to expand on my own prompts, and go a little bit deeper. And my favorite prompt right now is what are you looking for? Or what do you go crazy for and I go crazy for a woman with a little bit of fire inside, you know, a little bit bratty, and who can go toe to toe with me. And I think that the quality of women who are attracted to that type of profile is really stepping up. Because I stepped up my own game.

Cindy: 9:54

And that's good because Yeah, cuz I mean, mine is I attract a lot of pilots, a lot of people that jump off planes, adventures, a lot of people that but it's because of the pictures that I have on my profile.

Dave: 10:09

Yeah, like attracts like. So similar interests and shared values. Is that what you're talking about there soon?

Cindy: 10:15

Yes. My only thing that I don't understand Dan is, if you put that you've never smoked. Why the heck do a cigarette in your mouth?

Dave: 10:22

Hmm.

Nicole: 10:24

I feel like that's got to be

Cindy: 10:26

a red flag.

Nicole: 10:27

That's got to be some kind of joke, right? I don't smoke, but here I am with a cigarette in my mouth. Right. So I have a question for you, Dave. So when it comes to dating apps and what you've seen in the past, I guess on dating apps, what do you think is a big red flag to men that women write in their posts? Or in their profiles?

Dave: 10:51

Oh, this is a really good question. I appreciate you asking me that. When when I'm looking at somebody's profile, I'm looking at the language that they choose to use. Yes, I'm looking at the pictures, I'm looking to see if we have a commonality and active lifestyle. That's really important to me. But I'm also looking for a generally a positive outlook in the way that they speak in their prompts. Like, if if somebody puts in their bio, no smokers, no, no, no single dads, you know, homeless, no unemployed, you know, like, there's ways that we can say that we have standards in our profile without stating what we don't want. And I always encourage people to put very specifically in their bio, or in their prompts, what they want down to the tee. Because the more specific we get, the more likely it is that that's going to attract the person that fits what we're looking for.

Nicole: 11:49

That's great advice, actually, that I because I think I know, when I was writing, you know, profiles, I always struggled with what to write. So like, I would write something like, busy single mom, you know, something like that. And looking back, I feel like that was probably a big ol red flag, you know. So what I don't think that I'm a red flag. Maybe some people that I've dated that may listen to this podcast might think so. But

Cindy: 12:16

let me let me check my profile, because I'm curious now what I have on my profile, because I have over 1200 likes, and I haven't even looked at all of them. So let me I mean, does that

Dave: 12:28

that sounds like it would take forever to sift through 1200 people

Cindy: 12:30

that's too much. I, I put I am I am such an adventurous person and author realtor jump off planes. And working on my pilot license. I love to travel and always seeking to learn. And up for an adventure. I'm a full time single mom of two boys. And I'm a host of the Dear Baddies Boyfriend, Bitches is Dating and Everything in Between.

Dave: 12:52

podcast. Yeah, yeah, Nicole, when you were talking about single busy mom, or busy single mom, a couple of things come to mind that might attract a couple different types of people. Some people might see that as a challenge. And then other people might see that as like an opportunity to save. And the Savior, the savior complex is a tricky one in modern dating, of like, I'm a fixer, I'm going to help them, I'm going to save them, I'm going to be their hero or their white knight. And that's something that can come to the forefront after a certain amount of time in a relationship and it can be really disruptive to a connection and in a manipulative way.

Nicole: 13:39

I feel I wonder if that would be I guess, a sign of maybe a little bit of narcissism or like codependency

Dave: 13:44

codependency for sure.

Nicole: 13:47

Yeah. Because I've definitely one of my longest relationships I had. And so I've been divorced for like three years. So I dated one guy who I will not mention names, but I'll call him. I don't know, Bob, but I was gonna say, Bob, or he, I didn't realize he came on very strong. The love bombing was very, it was in your face, you know, within like, two to three weeks. It's like, I want you to be my mother. Like, I love you, you know, stuff like that. I didn't see it. I didn't see it. So it was hard to that was a tough relationship, for sure. And I feel like part of I think I might have messed up in the beginning when I wrote something along those lines on my dating app, potentially attracting the wrong person. So and I know, like, I told you about our Facebook group. So I feel there's a lot of younger girls in the group. I mean, there's all ages, there's, you know, 21 to like 60, which is great. You know, I love that we have, you know that big age. Right? The diversity. Yeah. So, but it just goes to show that, you know, it doesn't matter what age you are, you're still going to have issues. So, I mean, I think that I think it all starts with putting the right terminology in your dating profile. So because then I feel like you you're not going to attract a fuck boy. You're not going to attract someone like you said CodePen And then so yeah, it's right starts there. But you know, other than dating apps, from a male's perspective, like where? Where do you think the best place to meet someone organically would be?

Dave: 15:30

I get this question so often because of the general frustration with dating apps. And yeah, I know that I know that I perpetuate that narrative through tick tock and through social media, because it's the honest truth. And that's what I like to share about. But you know, I'll share a story from my own personal experience I was at I was at the grocery store, not intending to meet anybody. Just doing my weekly shopping, taking my time, because, you know, it's, it's a calming thing for me to go do that routine on a Sunday before I meal prep. And I turn a corner, and woman is coming at me turns a corner and she's, it's during quarantine. So we have masks on and she says, Wow, you have really beautiful eyes. And I caught myself, because it wasn't expecting a compliment. And I paused and I said, I really like your style. Thank you very much. You know, she was very originally dressed a nice outfit. And there wasn't a need to ask each other out. Or for each other's number, it was just a nice exchange with a complete stranger in the grocery store when I wasn't expecting it. So I think that's one place. And you know, if, if you're a man out there, I would I would go to Target. I was in Target earlier today.

Nicole: 16:48

Great idea honest,

Dave: 16:50

in the home goods section, or whatever. And I was like, I have the pick of the litter right here. Like I have the choices that Cindy has on the dating app. There's 1200 here in this target.

Nicole: 17:03

I know like, I don't know about you, Cindy, but like, if I'm gonna go shopping, like I'm gonna go to like TJ Maxx or target or, well, I just bought a house. So lately, it's Home Depot. There is a lot of

Dave: 17:14

what's your ratio there at Home Depot,

Nicole: 17:16

you know, older men. So I think if you're in that 45 plus age range, I think that's a great place to meet to

Cindy: 17:23

go there. Friday, Saturday, Sunday. But this is the thing. I mean, with me, I'm completely learning how to date in my 30s Is this is first time I'm actually getting myself out there. So now I join a country club. One of my one of the one of my mom's one of the my son's friend's parents have been asking me like you need to join the country club. Now I'm going to take wine classes. I'm going to take golf courses. I mean, I'm still going to get my my skydiving license. But it's basically mingling and going workplaces that I have not gotten before and getting out of my comfort zone. Delta sky lounge is really good to Delta sky lounge all day long. That's like a really good place. Do you go there? And there's like a menu of men. And it's like, wow, oh, my that is really he's really cute. And depending on date

Dave: 18:24

living within our radius, though, right. Yeah, I don't see the airport as a bad place to meet people, either. The last time I went through, I took a trip to Seattle and on my way back, very, very busy place. You know, the Seattle airport was definitely a target rich environment. But you have to you have to understand that not everybody's going to be able to, you're not having access to everybody that you would meet in an airport. They might not be getting on the same plane back to Denver as I am.

Cindy: 18:58

That is true. But like the guy I met and Melbourne, Florida, did I tell you guys about that guy? Okay, I told her but I haven't told you. So I met this guy. I was not expecting to meet anybody I got on the app. And I was about to match this guy. You know, my history mess with military men, by the way. So I'm like, You know what? I'm done with military guys. He's like, I just got out of the military. I just moved from Hawaii to Florida, not even a week ago. And history repeats itself, because the same thing happened with me and my ex boyfriend. I met him at a wedding and he was moving from oh my gosh, Columbus, mission, Mississippi to Albuquerque. Same thing. And I'm like, I don't know if this is like a red flag or if this is like Ron, but I mean, he has gorgeous blue eyes. I have a thing for men with blue eyes, by the way. And my dad has blue eyes. So and I'm like, he's just he started a new career and all that and I'm like, he's just a plane away. So now we're in five minutes. I mean, I mean, okay, I might even take a chance on that. But I don't know.

Dave: 20:12

What would make you take that risk. There's Cindy?

Cindy: 20:15

I don't know. But it's just like, I don't want to do that. Again, that's my thing. I want to work.

Dave: 20:20

What's your hesitation there?

Cindy: 20:23

The distance? I mean, this time I'm seeing the distance, I just bought a new house, I'm gonna establish you're in Georgia. My business is here. I mean, yeah, I get to spend it to Florida. But do I really want to do that? I'll buy a vacation house down there. But I don't really want to do that, can he move down here or up here? It would be perfect.

Dave: 20:41

It makes a lot of sense.

Cindy: 20:43

But it's finding a man that is willing to do that.

Nicole: 20:47

Well, so that kind of begs the question, Cindy, since you're talking to, you know, a few different men at this time. And and I don't mean that in a negative way at all. Like I

Dave: 20:56

she's got a roster?

Nicole: 21:00

I mean, men have rosters, too. So I don't see anything wrong with it. But so, because you're talking to so many people at one time, like Dave, in your opinion, assuming men do the exact same thing? How do men determine? You know, who they're going to see? You know, is it? Is it based on it like a one to five scale? Like, how does that? I guess how is that perceived in the male brain?

Dave: 21:24

That's a really good question. I don't think we're doing too much thinking about it. We're pretty much just going with our head, her heart and our balls with this decision. So I was gonna ask that one. What we want to we want to keep in mind with modern dating and dating apps is that men get about 10% of the engagement and interaction and matches that women do on online dating. So we can't necessarily assume that somebody is talking to as many people as we are. It comes down to a values based question, though. What is in alignment with my own values? Do I have a personal problem with speaking to five people at the same time? No, of course not. Do I have a logistical challenge dating five people at the same time? Yes. I don't want to do that. That's not going to hold me back from trying, you know, because because we have these biological drives within us. And what I think that the men are choosing based on is availability, who's giving response? Who's reciprocating, and who's accepting the dates, they might, they might actually be really good with rejection, asking 10 women for their numbers on the dating app, getting three numbers, and actually getting to the date with too. And so therefore, the numbers game, which online dating gets a gets a reputation for being a numbers game. It's fact, you know, start 15 conversations to exchange five phone numbers to get to people on a date. Well, that's our pool of people. Our pool of people is not the 13 people that fizzled out, we're not going to like Cindy said earlier, we're not going to chase those people.

Cindy: 23:09

I agree with that.

Nicole: 23:10

Why? Why do men feel the need to not chase because I remember growing up with my southern grandparents, you know, I always remember them saying, You gotta let it like if a man wants you to he'll chase you. But I don't feel in 2022 that that is really and maybe it's because there are so many options, or you know, everyone has a plan B. Why do you think that is that? I guess that's really not a relevant saying anymore.

Dave: 23:39

It sounds as if that's a regional narrative. And it might even be a false narrative in every single generation. Because naturally, biologically, we call it psycho by a psycho biological. The, the masculine energy is not going to chase what he wants, he's going to pursue it. And like I said earlier, the the people who are not responding if I were to continue and engage in those people, like the man who slides up in your DMS 15 times in a row with no response, that's Chase type energy. A man who pursues What he wants is actually getting reciprocation. And there's a huge difference here because the man who pursues the feminine energy can also pursue his purpose with his life's energy, right? His core energy can be in pursuit of both his purpose and his partner at the same time. If we're diluting that energy, that core energy with Chase energy, well, then we're taking up space for what is actually meant for us.

Cindy: 24:45

So I have a question for you on this because so here we say okay, women shouldn't Chase and all that. But then what when men Chase and then they pursue, then we have a little problem then we call it love bombing. We call it stalking, we call it I don't know what else we call it, but obsess. So where do we put the fine line there?

Dave: 25:13

I think that we can establish some boundaries, for sure. When we, when we start to feel that grasp be sense of urgency, type Chase energy from anybody that we're speaking to on a dating app, or on text message or on social media, and it doesn't matter the gender, if somebody is coming on too strong, that's certainly something to be conscious of. It's not an immediate red flag, it might be eventually a red flag, but it's something to be conscious of. And love bombing, I think is a little bit more extreme than chase. The chase is coming from an immature place in the masculine of like, I gotta have it, I need it. It's an ego based decision. But the love bombing is more manipulation. That's known as like coverts. Now, I'm not going to say label it as narcissism because we all have narcissistic tendencies and nice narcissistic traits within us. But it's definitely a narcissistic tendency in order to love Bob. It's manipulative in nature, to get somebody else's behavior to change to line up with what we want to feed our own ego, basically.

Cindy: 26:29

So now with this, now, I want to go into the attachments. So then because then there is all these traumas. And okay, so then what attachment style fits best with you? It's the avoidance and I can't remember the other ones.

Dave: 26:47

Sure, yeah. There's three different attachment styles. And if I could get clarification on your question, I think I heard you say which attachment style lines up with you bests? Can you expand on that question?

Cindy: 27:00

With different people? That is correct. Not with me, but

Dave: 27:04

okay. We're not talking about who I attract as my attachment style, because that's a whole nother conversation. But for our conversation today, we'll talk about four different types of attachment styles. About 50% of the population is securely attached. That's good news for most people out there. 25% of the population is avoidant Lee attached. That's the bad news. 20% of the population is anxiously attached. And then 5% of population is known as disorganized. And that includes your Psychopaths, sociopaths, narcissists, anxious, avoidant, anxious, preoccupied, fearful, avoidant, and so forth. So the main three attachment styles can be in relationship with each other. There are definitely optimal matches, like I just interviewed an amazing guest on my own podcast where she's talking about the securely attached people self selecting themselves out of the dating pool, because they gravitate to one another. There's a lot of comfort, there's a lot of ease of conversation, there's a lot of familiarity with the securely attached person attracting another secure person. And so they tend to make the decision to be in partnership faster than the other two attachment styles. So when you find yourself on a dating app, and you're like, oh, my gosh, everybody is avoidant on a dating app. Everybody's anxious on a dating app. Well, that's likely because the securely attached people who are using dating apps to meet other people are self selecting themselves off the app, they delete their profile, and they're no longer available to the people who are left, leaving us the avoidant and the anxiously attached people. And those two types gravitate to each other like it's a magnetic pole. It's called the push pull dynamic in psychology, but it's also called the anxious avoidant trap in attachment theory. And this is something to be incredibly conscious of, first of all, identifying what our own attachment style is. I'm a fearful avoidant, so I can really empathize with both the anxious and the avoidant style because I have both of those energies within me. It's really a gift. It sounds bad, but it's actually a gift for me. I can tune into my body's central nervous system and I can listen to my body and trust that it's not butterflies that this is actually a gut punch when I meet somebody new and and so when the anxious and the avoidant attract each other, it can oftentimes feel like fireworks or chemistry in the first three to four weeks. And then the anxious attachment style might start love bombing, which feels to the void like it's very invasive in their independence and in their own life structure. So they tend to pull back after three to four weeks, and that makes the anxious attachment style chase after the avoidant. And then the avoidant runs even further. And then it's this push pull dynamic or the anxious avoidant trap that gets activated when we're in relationship with each other. Does that make sense?

Nicole: 30:05

It does it makes total sense. Yeah.

Cindy: 30:07

Yes, it does. Because I mean, I'm on avoidance style. I don't like like, I don't like yeah, there's not confrontation But it's like, don't love

Dave: 30:18

Close intimacy, right?

Cindy: 30:20

Yeah. I'm a porcupine, I put it the porcupine style.

Nicole: 30:25

So what do you what's your opinion on the five love languages? Do you think that those are still relevant today?

Dave: 30:31

Yeah, I absolutely think that they're very applicable. Again, it's about self awareness. When we excuse me, when we identify what our attachment style is, then we get to learn more about ourselves, we can communicate better to future partners about what we need, what we don't need, what we want and what we don't want. And then when we can add the love language is into that conversation, we can get more specific with what we actually do want and what we actually don't need. If my top two love languages are quality time and physical touch, but gifts and words of affirmation are really low on that list. Well, then you might actually hear me asking my partner for more time together, more physical touch, and almost never asked for a gift. And knowing that about ourselves can help us communicate with our partners. But it can also help us manage expectations to have like if I have clear communication and comprehension with my partner about what my love languages what their love languages are. And we get this miscommunication or we get this dysregulation in our nervous systems, a fight basically a fight over dinner. Well, words of affirmation person is going to feel a little resentful that they didn't get the compliment on how good dinner was. But a person who's not high on that list of giving words of affirmation isn't going to notice that. And so they have to communicate about like, hey, I really felt like you dropped me after dinner by not thanking me and and complimenting that dinner, you know that that's really important to me. What's ultimately important about this is not to use these tools as a weapon.

Nicole: 32:09

That makes total sense. I think we probably all use them as a weapon at some point or another. But I think being conscious of, of doing of doing that is, is definitely something to keep in mind. So do you think that the the attachment styles, do they always go hand in hand with the with the love languages? Or is is that do you think that they're totally separate?

Dave: 32:34

I think that they're both really applicable. They're not identical, which is great. Assessments can kind of get overwhelming, like it can be too much self awareness, it's at times, I sit with that quite a bit in my own experience. But when we I just I'll just provide an example from my own experience. I have an avoidant attachment style, and I was dating a partner for about three and a half years, who had words of affirmation as her love language. We fought nonstop about this words of affirmation love language for years. And as an avoidant, I really didn't want to get close to my partner. So I didn't offer up, I didn't give those words of affirmation out of firm. It wasn't a boundary, it was out of spite. And I think that when we can acknowledge that that's a flaw and a fault of our own, then we can either choose to work with it, and choose to grow and choose to give, or we choose a different partnership. I hope that answers your question.

Nicole: 33:41

Yeah, absolutely.

Cindy: 33:42

So now I have a question with for you, because now I am going to bring another test, which is the personality test. So I am a protagonist. So then does this protect? Does this personality test goes with the love language attachment and all that? Do they all correlate together?

Dave: 34:03

Sure. Are you talking about the Enneagram? That quite a bit? Yes. Yeah, I think I remember that your moral protagonists, which is the type one I'm a type eight challenger, which is known to be very intense, fears, vulnerability. And when we understand that this self awareness tool can can help us understand how others view us. This may not be how we view ourselves, but it's a tool to help us understand what others feel in our presence. So let's take the Challenger an avoidant attachment style, and my love languages have quality time and physical touch and layer them together. So if my challenge your personality type, which is a great assessment, it's very thorough and in depth, doesn't like vulnerability. Well, then it's going to fit in perfectly with the avoidant attachment style because they also don't like intimacy closeness and vulnerability. So that's a double edged sword when it comes to me and relating to other people. And then if we have quality time and physical touches my love language is well then how do I get those needs met when I'm fearing vulnerability, don't like intimacy and closeness but I also crave physical touch and quality time. So it's almost like Can we sit on the same couch but sit at opposite ends and touch toes underneath this one blanket while we watch a movie and not talk to each other? Well, that's not going to help a lot of people in relationship. So I chose to use all three of these tools. Once I was ready to start making a change in my life, I decided to use these three, three tools as a path to growth. And if I'm known as intense or fearing vulnerability, well, then those are opportunities for me to look at ways I can soften my approach. Can I slow start up a conversation with my partner? If I'm fearing vulnerability, is there a way that I can ease my way into a relationship and not go all in in the first three weeks, so that I don't pull away with an avoidant attachment stuff? And these are all ways that I've understood myself to be a better partner in a relationship when I lean in, as opposed to pull away.

Nicole: 36:20

When did you discover all of these different, I guess personality tests? Like how, how long did it take you to be like, alright, well, this isn't bullshit. This is actually how I am. And this is how I need to retrain myself.

Dave: 36:31

Right? That's a fun question. We'll start with the Enneagram. I was working as my personal trainer, I had my own studio I was I was working with clients every day. And they had just come from this really cool workshop. And they were raving about it. And they're like, Dave, you got to take this assessment, and you got to go to this next workshop. And you will have so much fun. It's so great that and they were talking about the Enneagram. And the next time that this workshop came around in Denver, I signed up, I signed up and I invited my partner to go along with me, she had a couple younger kids, so she wasn't available that night. But I'm sitting in this room with a great leader, a great teacher, and about 70 other people in the room. And I had my assessment in front of me, I had my printout and she starts to describe my type. And I was like, Oh, this is spot on. And then she started to describe my partner's type. And without her taking the test, I knew spot on. I sent her the link. And I said, You got to check this out. Tell me what you think. And she replied back, this is spot on, oh, my gosh, is so accurate. And it was in that workshop that I understood not even with my partner being there, why we were having so many challenges in our relationship. She's known as the helper. And she really, really, really wants to help others, puts others before herself to the detriment of her own self care, her own health. And I saw that showing up in our relationship. And we spoke to codependency earlier. And this was my first look into how I show up codependent ly. And the Enneagram was a tool that helped me do that. I was enabling my partner to over help me. And I was avoiding the intimacy and giving her the words of affirmation that she deserved for helping me. And so she never felt loved. And our relationship didn't last much longer than that, because I saw this as a path to growth. And she chose not to take that step with me. And so we grew apart. And then after that breakup, and one other that was about six months later, that's when I found that attachment styles and attachment theory. And it was game over for me. I was I was leaning all the way in, I was headfirst into researching modern dating, and I decided to start the podcast and I sought out experts and authors and speakers and coaches and therapists and counselors to come speak to me about modern dating because I knew nothing. And then fast forward four and a half years later, here we are chatting with Sydney, who I met on Tiktok, who became a client and the podcast has about 241 episodes now. And we dig into things like attachment theory, the Enneagram, masculine feminine energy dynamics, and we just have a blast doing it.

Nicole: 39:12

That's amazing. What's the name of your podcast?

Dave: 39:15

It's my name, you can search the Dave Glazer podcast.

Cindy: 39:18

Okay, great. So I have a question for you. So now would you recommend like female and male like just trying to talk would you recommend them to do like what is your five? Love, love, love? Five love language? What is your anagram? What is your attachment style?

Dave: 39:38

Huh? Now at what point are we having this conversation about personality assessment tests because I was so involved. I was I was so interested in the Enneagram that I got I got feedback from a professional acquaintance of mine. He's like, Dave, you talked about the Enneagram so much and you talked about dating so much. When do you have your dates? Take the test. Is it before during or after the first date? And I had to catch myself in speaking to this level on first dates because it really can be confronting and off putting to bring that much self awareness to a first date. but also to talk in such detail, when first dates should really be fun. Like, I did have a recent first date. We met up at a local bar, I don't drink, but I don't mind if my partner drinks a glass of wine or two or whatever, within reason. And we met up and she had a glass of wine and to StrengthsFinder, because that's what she does professionally. And then the conversation went to a book that she was reading, it's called Wired for love. And I just happen to be reading wired for dating, which is by the same author. So because we were talking about books we enjoy, which can be a fun first aid topic. Then the conversation turned to attachment theory, and the Enneagram. And she just happened to be one on the Enneagram as well, Cindy, like, I felt as if I was sitting at a cocktail table in Denver, having a conversation with you. We went out a second time, she wasn't ready to be really dating out there. But this was one scenario where we were both passionate about self awareness. And she did it professionally. And I do it through the podcast that it came up. So knowing that about each other, we were able to have deeper conversations faster sooner. But you know, depth in my conversation maybe about topics that may never come up for you, Cindy, and you could still have the same feelings of that depth, the deep, deep connection that you're looking for over the Pittsburgh Steelers, or over boating in Florida, you know, the topics don't matter just as long as you both enjoy them.

Nicole: 41:53

So when you know, and this might be a dumb question, but when do you know that you're giving away too much information on a first date?

Dave: 42:03

Oh, we call it the deer in headlights? Right? Like if if I start to feel my body language lean back in my chair, or I start to get a little spacey of like, what did she just say there? I don't think I was listening. That's when I know that I'm disengaged. And I might have that glassy look in my eyes. So I need to snap myself back to the present moment. I may ask a very intriguing follow up question to just kind of like break the break the pattern of conversation. And I did have a recent first date. This was awful. Like, we met on hinge and very, very long paragraph messages in the app before I even got the chance to respond. And I'm like, you know, I'm I'm working on a couple of things in my life. I'm not taking things personally, I'm starting I'm trying to give people the benefit of the doubt. I see that she's giving me a lot of information in the app before we exchanged numbers before we even set the date. And then we set the date exchange numbers, and she did it again over text and she's like, you're not much of a texter Are you? And I was like, you know, that's a very valid question. I appreciate you asking not when I'm at work. That's when she was like, Oh, I received that. And she backed off a lot. Well, guess what, on the first date, it was the exact same thing. It was it was really dominated at one side of the table. And I remember she said at one point, she's like, You're smiling a lot. And I was like, you know, honestly, I have a lot of gratitude for life right now. I have a lot of joy in my life. And she's like, Oh, tell me more about that. And so I started talking about Jiu Jitsu. Five seconds later, she interrupts me and starts going off again. There's, there's a certain mindfulness that we need to have when we're on first dates. Because if it's 6040, split conversation 5050 That's great. If it gets closer to 7030 being dominated on one side of the table, we know that there's not that much of a connection. Unless, of course, we could talk about masculine and feminine energy all day long. But if the masculine is holding space for the feminine, there's a whole lot of chaos that can be filled in that space. Not sure if you can relate to that.

Cindy: 44:21

Yeah, I mean, Thanks, Nicole. No, it's just like, it's really, really interesting, because you're right, but then again, I mean, I've really don't have time to like, for me when I reply, yes, sometimes I reply, like, I mean, Nicole, you you and I, we chatted a lot. And I mean, Dave, you and I, we have chatted too, and it's just like sometimes I'll reply a little paragraph and then I'll just keep on like sending sending send, send. But it's just like that takes you should like there you shouldn't give that much information. If I want to scare someone away. I will definitely throw this I'm like look, I donated my eggs to my brother. So I mean, that's the first thing if I just want to scare them away. I mean, I actually donated my eggs to my brother and they're having a baby with my eggs. So my my brother in law's you know, fertilize, fertilize you that and you know what, they're just putting that in this organ. So if you don't like that, then it does to scare them away. But it does. I don't do that with everybody though. And that's where my avoidant style comes in.

Dave: 45:31

Yeah, I can see that. Nicole did you have a question?

Nicole: 45:35

I do So Cindy, just did you potentially maybe maybe you just weren't ready for that relationship? And maybe that was something that you did on purpose not thinking about it?

Cindy: 45:46

Oh, no, I did that on purpose.

Dave: 45:51

So if I'm if I'm hearing you correctly, as opposed to being honest and telling the truth and saying, Hey, I just don't feel connection. I'm going to use the restroom and then I'm going to head on out Nice to meet you. You choose to push them away with TMI too much information that I believe correctly?

Cindy: 46:08

Yes. But they don't go away.

Dave: 46:11

No, because they they find that very interesting. And they find it to be a challenge. And they want to know more because they, they they believe that you're engaging out of interest.

Nicole: 46:26

Yeah, we need to use that block button.

Dave: 46:32

I clear clear comprehensible communication.

Cindy: 46:36

That's good to know.

Nicole: 46:37

Yeah. Do you ever do you think that there's any are ever a time where ghosting is okay?

Dave: 46:45

Yeah, absolutely. I could record an entire episode on this one topic. I feel as if your if your safety is in jeopardy, absolutely goes to that person. If they were inappropriate, and stepped over a boundary multiple times on a date, I would say not necessary to have a thank you conversation Best of luck to you conversation. Those are the two most obvious ones that I have. Honestly, after, after our first date, if, if there's no connection, and it's mutual, and you just say, Hey, thanks for a great time. That's not ghosting. If you never contact that person, again, that's a polite ending to a first date, where neither one of you are interested in a second. So that's more like mutual ending, as long as there's like a cordial goodbye.

Cindy: 47:36

That makes sense.

Nicole: 47:37

So, so I'm assuming if you've slept with them, ghosting is probably not okay.

Dave: 47:43

Absolutely not. Okay. If you've been if you've been intimate second base and beyond, you should probably send the thanks. But no thanks, text. Yeah.

Cindy: 47:52

So when do you mind? Sorry? No, go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead.

Nicole: 47:56

So I was just gonna ask you a question. So I know like for myself, I have the 90 day kind of, I don't want to say rule, but guideline, I guess. So like, you know, the first 30 days, you get to know them. Potentially, at the end of that 30 days, you become exclusive. And then so on, so forth, you know, 30 to 60 days, you get to know them even better, you sleep with them during that time, and then, you know, potentially they become boyfriend, girlfriend. So during that first 90 days, or I guess whatever your guideline is, when is, I guess when is it appropriate to sleep with them?

Dave: 48:35

That's a really valid question. And I think that that timeline is going to be different for everybody. As long as people are two consenting adults, and they have clear boundaries, and they stay safe, then they could sleep together on the first date. And that be completely okay. I feel as if being completely transparent about what you're looking for, before the first date, or on the first date, hey, I'm looking for just something really casual right now. And if that's okay, with two people who are consenting adults, I say go for it. If people are looking for long term relationship that leads to marriage, and they feel really good connection on the second date. And they're both consenting adults, and they stay safe. I say fuck and go for it. Because the weird mentioning false narratives earlier and the regional one that you came from of like, Oh, if he wants you, he'll chase you kind of a thing, right? Well, the narrative the narrative in America comes from from our culture, right? Our sociological culture, and it's oftentimes passed down through generations as a way to shame people. If sex education is is used to shame people into abstinence, well, then that's going to create a narrative in our culture that may or may not be true for everybody. And what makes sense to me and my partner doesn't have to make sense to you or Cindy or anybody listening in this podcast.

Cindy: 50:08

I completely agree with you. My my whole thing is I just like he says, I think I'm excited. feel sexual. So that means that I'm attracted to intelligence. And but same time, it's just like, if there's not a connection, I can't have sex. Like, there has to be a connection. If I like you, I'm just not going to sleep with you

Nicole: 50:37

think I mean?

Dave: 50:38

Yeah, completely agree.

Nicole: 50:39

for everybody. Because like, I know that, especially after my ex husband and I separated, like, I feel like, I didn't really get to experience my 20s. So I kind of like, let loose a little bit. Probably more than maybe I should have been, I learned a lot. From all of that. To where, you know, now being in my mid 30s, I know what to look out for and what you know what to avoid, and, I guess go with when it comes to dating, so I don't think it's always a bad thing to lose. Yeah, so let's Yeah, sure. I think you've learned a lot about yourself, too.

Cindy: 51:17

I mean, it's just you're right on that. I mean, I don't like but I mean, we become like really good friends. But that's the thing is the emotions. I don't like having an emotion avoidant style again. And it's just like, in like, once you sleep with someone, it's just like, you get I don't know that connection. Then you still like, oh, I want to have sex with him again. And, and like, I don't want that. Like, no, stay away. Leave me alone.

Dave: 51:45

I want you close, but I want you far away. Can I have both please? Yeah. Like a true avoidant, right.

Cindy: 51:51

And that's the thing. And that's the reason that I've been looking for long distance relationships. And now it's just like, Okay, let me like, there's this guy I'm going out on Tuesday with and he, we met an event and he's like, let's go out and we texted him, like, look, I want to tell you something, I don't mix business and pleasure. I am not going to do this. I'm not gonna grab coffee, because I know where this is gonna lead. And I was like, pushed him away. So, but we're going out on Tuesday, it took me almost a month. And then that's another Persistence is key. Yes. Persistence is key. I see em all the time, right? I mean, I see him all the time. So it's just like, okay, so it does take time baby steps to just like open the little door.

Nicole: 52:41

Dave, you mentioned something earlier about the woman telling you the beautiful eyes of the grocery store. So just I guess from a male's perspective, I'm assuming that men are not as I guess, approached as women are?

Dave: 52:56

I would, I would say that that's, that's an accurate statement. And I one of the funny facts about human biology psychobiology is that men are like light switches. And women are like dials. Instantly, instantly, when that person gave me a compliment, because they're few and far between from strangers who approach. I was a light switch, not in a sectional, not in a sexual way, just in a know like, oh, I have an appreciation kind of a way. And men really receive appreciation very well. So if there's a compliment that we can give to a perfect stranger, like a woman wants to approach a man, and she wants to really get his attention, appreciate his intelligence, appreciate his strength, appreciate his appearance. And it will go a long way to make a great first impression if you want to approach somebody and in a grocery store.

Nicole: 53:52

Yeah. So then, I guess. So from a female perspective. You know, I feel like we live in a day and age where maybe we should be approaching men more than men approach us. So if we were going to do that, what do you think is the best course of action for that? Like? I guess what would be the right thing to say is compliment him?

Dave: 54:17

I wouldn't even start with that. I would say it's okay to touch him nice. Touch him on the elbow. If he's if he's close to you, like break the touch barrier. Hey, I saw you over here when I'd come introduce myself. And that's all you'll have to say. Because if he is open, available and interested, he'll take the lead from there. And if he doesn't, then it's not worth chasing.

Nicole: 54:46

That makes sense. I'm sorry, Cindy, did you have something to say?

Cindy: 54:51

I was gonna say so it'd be like okay, so compliment I'm, I'm going to practice this next two days.

Dave: 54:59

In what way?

Cindy: 55:00

Because I'm going to two events. So I mean, I'm going to networking events, so actually three, so yeah, so then I'll be like, Okay, let me see. No ring. Single perfect. Full like back.

Dave: 55:16

Are you are you let me ask you question there. Cindy, are you open to it?

Cindy: 55:20

To open to what?

Dave: 55:21

Are you open to a question?

Cindy: 55:23

No, no, right? Oh, yeah, I'm open to a question. Go for it.

Dave: 55:28

So is this a professional or personal networking event that you're going to the next couple of days?

Cindy: 55:32

I'm actually I'm actually meeting Nicole for the first time in person. And so we're going to the club that I just joined. Professional club, I'm not gonna mention it, because so smart. I, I got invited while we got invited to these events, so it's business. So I mean, it's as basically meeting with other business people as well, right? I mean, it's not, it's not like I started, like, I was going to a lot of real estate events. Now I'm going to different events. Locally, not locally, but in Atlanta, just because it expands his my search. And I'm not seeing the same people over and over and over again. And it gets me out of my circle.

Dave: 56:22

Right. Yeah. And it sounded earlier as if you were going to be on the prowl to Did I did I hear you right? The what? You were going to be on the prowl, like searching for? Who's my next target? Is that what I heard?

Cindy: 56:36

Maybe I'm not doing it because of that. I'm doing it more likely for networking. But if there's a cute guy, like, hey, you know, I tried to pick up a 19 year old the other day at the at the beach, and I called I got called the milk. I'm like, Oh, nope. I'm like, I told him, what was this exchanged? Snapchats later, he's like, you're looking nice today. Like, but I was complimenting him. So that's a good thing he had, but he felt really good.

Dave: 56:58

Right? And what would come up for you if I if I challenged you to be approached, as opposed to approaching others? For the next couple of days?

Cindy: 57:08

I can do that, too.

Dave: 57:12

I want I want to report that I want you to report back.

Cindy: 57:15

I would definitely

Nicole: 57:16

I love to read that report.

Cindy: 57:20

Nicole has seen my report.

Nicole: 57:24

No, I've seen you know, like you showed me today like I've seen some of your text messages to men and and I think it's great that you are no bullshit. And I think it's great that you're like, This is what I want. This is when I want it. And this is how you're gonna fucking do it. You know, like, I love that. But I also feel like, sometimes it's a little strong. But it all depends on the right person. Right. So like the right person is going to love that you do that? Yeah. situation. Yeah. But you know what I feel like, and they correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like if you scare them away, then maybe they're just not up for the challenge. And they don't deserve to have you.

Dave: 58:01

Yeah, that's not the right fit person.

Cindy: 58:04

I totally agree with that.

Dave: 58:06

Yeah, be authentic. And if they're not up to if they're not going to step up or step into your authenticity, then it's time to step out.

Nicole: 58:16

Yeah, I agree agree with that. Well, I know that we're right at an hour. So Dave, thank you so so, so much for coming on our podcast. We truly appreciate all the advice you've given us. And I know Cindy and I both have a lot to think about, especially you know, when it comes to dating in 2022. But again, everybody listening is Dave Glaser. Check out his podcast and his TikTok. They are hilariously funny yet beneficial. So

Cindy: 58:50

you got to see him. He has some of them. Some of them are shirtless, and some of them were short for the guys. But he has really, really good content. And guys, if you guys are looking to do some tiktoks Follow Dave. I mean, he's a dating coach. He's amazing. So just connect with him on tick tock, you have Instagram, right?

Dave: 59:08

I do. Yeah. You can find my Instagram through my TikTok account or search my name on any social media. Google machine platform.

Cindy: 59:17

Definitely. Thank you Dave so much.

Nicole: 59:19

Thank you and thanks for listening to Dear Baddies Boyfriends Bitches and Everything in Between. Have a good night.

Cindy: 59:27

Have a good night.